Returning to the land
Migration stories usually go in one direction: away from rural life, towards cities. But around the world, rural people are proving that progress sometimes comes from circling back with purpose. On this episode, we explore the quiet transformation that comes with what is known as reverse migration: where farmers, rural entrepreneurs and young professionals return home with new skills and vision. From reviving local economies to recharging food systems, they're showing the world that rural life isn’t about just surviving, but thriving. Featuring Ward Anseeuw, Joel and Erina Guma, Annet Nampoza, and Sheik Tambedou.
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Transcript
This is Farms. Food. Future. – a podcast that’s Good for you, Good for the Planet, and Good for Farmers. Brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.
[MUSIC]
Brian:
Welcome to episode 83, I’m Brian Thomson,
Michelle:
and co-presenting this edition, I’m Michelle Tang.
Brian:
In this episode we’re flipping the script on migration. Let’s talk about reverse migration.
Michelle:
Sounds like a serious topic, right? But trust us, it’s about so much more than just packing up and heading back home – it’s about people reclaiming their future and bringing new life into their communities.
Brian:
That’s right. And when we talk about migration, we’re usually thinking of people leaving. But reverse migration? It’s all about people returning to where they came from… not out of desperation, but out of opportunity.
Michelle:
We’re talking about making rural communities places where people want to stay… places that thrive, not just survive.
Brian:
Because when folks come back, they’re doing more than just filling empty spaces: They’re revitalizing economies, creating jobs, and changing the game for food security.
Michelle:
Exactly. And by doing this, we ease the strain on crowded cities in favour of a more balanced and sustainable way to develop the world.
Brian:
Don’t forget we want to hear from you what you think about our stories and who you want us to be talking to – so please get in touch with us at podcasts@ifad.org. You can also subscribe to this podcast via your favourite podcast platform and please don’t forget to rate us.
Michelle:
Coming up, we’ll hear from a farmer in the Gambia who returned to his community after a long and difficult journey.
[MUSIC]
Brian:
You’re listening to Farms. Food. Future. with me Brian Thomson and Michelle Tang.
IFAD’s Resilience of Organizations for Transformative Smallholder Agriculture Project, or ROOTS for short, works in five regions of The Gambia.
Michelle:
The goal? Boosting productivity and market access for smallholders to help build resilience for rural businesses.
Brian:
And a great example of this is Sheik Tambedou’s story. After a long, tough journey, he’s built not just a business, but an entire future for himself and his community.
Michelle:
It’s a story of going full circle, from migration to transformation.
Brian:
Our reporter Hector Clack, spoke with Sheik.
Hector Clack:
Welcome to the podcast, Seth. Can you tell us about yourself, where you come from in The Gambia and what life was like growing up there?
Sheik Tambedou:
Yes, I was born in a village called Miss Ranjan Village, located in lower Flood W District, Central River region, South of the Gambia. It is very. Difficult life in growing up here simply because the poor financial background we're living in. This is lack of. The Employment Opportunity. This because we did not have so many factories and industries that has the employment opportunities for youth within the region. The only opportunity we have is farming and we don't have strong facilities. And food processing equipment. As a result, we faces a huge post harvest loss and we could not produce a lot due to the limited storage facilities and the transportation service for our goods. So this is a big problem that in the House, that's why it's very difficult to survive. In this part of the world.
Hector:
Can you tell us about your story? When did you decide to leave your community and why?
Sheik:
I graduated my high school in:
Hector:
siness, Sen Agro Farm. And in:
Sheik:
The transport used to be very difficult in the Community, more especially during the rainy season. We often uses donkey carts to transport our goods from farm to the markets. However, when I got in touch with the root project. Have given me a tricycle which I do use for transportation and this help a lot in the community during the transport, more especially when the rainy season, whereas the roads are so hard to go through, like the donkey carts and the horse carts we used to struggle to go. To the market, this serve as a very good opportunity for my Community people because like since then, up to now, whenever they are good, are intact, they'll just call me to go and take them to the market and it's serve as a big opportunity for them.
Hector:
How has the project changed the way people in your community think about staying and working there, especially in terms of long-term stability?
Sheik:
Before, well before the mindsets of the youth, it was never that we can make it in the Gambia. That was our mindset. However, this has turned around for now since we can get local opportunities. Many youths have believed that they can make it even here more than outside when they have the opportunity, they can stay in the Gambia more specially the rural people, they can do farming well and stay in their own community and make it in the Gambia. Here. That's now the mindset that we are having. So but this can only come through when we have good opportunities, good support. We’d really we really love to stay in the Gambia. And work here if we have the support.
Brian:
Thank you, Sheik and Hector.
Michelle:
Up next, we’re heading to Uganda to hear from a businessman who came back from the UK to start a family business with a twist.
[MUSIC]
Michelle:
You’re listening to episode 83 of Farms. Food. Future. With me Michelle Tang and Brian Thomson.
Brian:
Joel and Erina Guma left Uganda for the UK in search of opportunity. After years of building their lives there, they decided to return home and start a family business.
Michelle:
With support from the IFAD yield fund, their company – Pristine Foods, is making waves and creating jobs back in their local community. Our reporter, Hector Clack, spoke with them at IFAD's Governing Council.
[MUSIC]
Hector Clack:
Welcome Joel and Erina to the podcast and also to IFAD's 48th Governing council.
Joel Guma:
Thank you for the question. We came following our work with the yield fund and IFAD from when we started, we think, well I got an office and if I had, we thought this was a good event to share our experience of how our journey has been with IFAD and show how collaboration with SME’s and IFAD, with being able to reach the farmer, can actually help food systems.
Erina Guma:
Just to add to that, certainly we're near to success story for what IFAD can achieve and we have more Pristine's that IFAD can support, and certainly the fact that they are grounded to the grassroots, it's motivation enough to come up and speak, speak up, and perhaps through this we can put the call out for more partners and more people to join IFAD in this quest.
Hector:
Before we dive into the questions about Pristine [Foods], can you tell us a little bit about yourselves and where you come from? What was lifelike growing up?
Joel:
I am one of seven children (well not children now). One of seven, and I was raised by a single mother in the western part of Uganda in a place called Marrara, and as a single mother raising a family, life wasn't easy for us. We didn't have many basics most of the time and getting through school was hard, but she valued education nevertheless and every coin she had, she put it to that priority. And here we are a number of years ahead. So, I saw first-hand the impact of a mother on the success of raising a child. They do give everything so it has shaped how I think in life and seeing that women should be prioritised and also young people, I through my personal experience.
Erina:
I am one of 10. And raised by 4 mothers. Yes. And it's it was really interesting growing up. My parents valued education and certainly girl education. I remember my dad telling me there wasn't anything I couldn't do that my brothers could do. In fact, I could do more than they could, so that press me on in life and I had a good life. They afforded me the best education. I travelled countries, but more importantly, what they taught me is that life was not about just you. It was about the other people as well. So that communal responsibility of being responsible for other people around you and not just yourself. So being churchgoers, where God tells us to love our neighbours, my parents were always involved in community and helping people, and even if I'm one of ten, they must have looked after about 30-40 [people], you know thirty others and looked after them from start to finish. So, it was a very interesting upbringing and coming up to what we're doing now. It's still a communal affair, which I'm very well versed.
Hector:
You spent years living and working abroad. What made you decide to return to Uganda and start Pristine Foods?
Joel:
to make the move. That was in:
Erina:
Similar to Joel. I remember in the inception of this plan and coming up with a business plan, he's the brains behind it. He's the engineer. I mean the finance side. But I remember him saying to me the sourcing would be from women and young people, and for me, that's what sold it for me. Back in Africa, if you want to raise a nation, you get a woman and you feed a woman, and she will literally have to carry everyone on her back to the finish line. So, for me, the motivation was coming back to where we started from. It's like full circle, we've gained all these experiences, we had the opportunity but now we're coming back to actually put back into the place that grow us, the place that fed and nurtured us and we'll be bringing back the scales and bringing it back home. And the thing that we're going to do, the project was going to aid women it was It's going to feed homes, it is going to create jobs for young people and certainly in a very small way, without thinking about changing the entire world. Just one little dot. You know that if we did something with our lives more purposeful than just ourselves, then I think we'd die easy, really. And we're glad we did.
Hector:
What were the biggest challenges that you faced at the beginning and what advice would you give to other entrepreneurs who are looking for investment?
Joel:
One of the biggest challenges I remember first is raising capital. I think that was very, very fast huddle. We are two, but we had two other shareholders. So, we're four at the time of the start, the full yield fund came. So, we got all our savings even there are two others, and we deposited on machinery and went to the banks to say this is a commitment we started and everyone would go in. They would shut the door, and they said this. This is risky. Nobody is doing this. Nobody has done this in this part of the world. It's definitely not going to work. So, it was very, very frustrating because the normal banking system, they’re looking at growth of existing businesses, not startups. So, when we're about to give up, that's when we got in touch with the yield fund and they could see the concept on the side of the impact, not just on the farmer, but also looking at impact on the other side. And I think that's when we got some traction. We've had other challenges when we're starting. Organising the farmers into groups, farmers are scattered. They're in and out of business because of feeds and other value chain challenges and poultry didn't have any association of farmers, especially those who are farming eggs in any way, so it was difficult to actually get away of sourcing.
Erina:
The biggest as well for me was the mindset. So, coming back home, I personally only worked in the UK, so I'd finish Uni in Africa on the plane, conquer the world in England and so all my work experience was abroad. So, coming back and the mindsets of the young people and the people themselves in regard to time or valuing what you're doing and also having output and output based workforce rather than just, you showed up at work. But OK, so what did you do? It was 8 hours. You need to get paid but what did you actually do in those eight hours? That puts hat should make your employer to pay you. So part of it was changing of mindsets because, like I said, the real drive force and as much as we're here talking, we have an army of 44 staff who are slaying away every single day and doing their bit so the different departments in quality, in human resources, and finance, in production, and warehousing and logistics in different departments. So, we have 44 behind us that are doing a lot of work for us to come out and speak about this. But the changing of mindsets, if you think about a workplace where no one knows what to do. Only one man knows what to do. He's the only one with experience. So, none of the people that we hire have come with experience because we're the 1st in this in central Africa to do what we're doing everyone, whether they're an accountant, if they're a microbiologist, they haven't tested the products that we are testing. If they're a, a warehouse and logistics manager is still different for liquid egg in chilled vans and different things. And then if they produce relations they are monitoring and evaluation or extension officer, it's still different because the farmers we’re dealing with are scattered, very sceptical and don't really want to bulk or group things together. So everyone comes in at their own risk. If I could call that. It's literally, yeah, you're hired. But we're just going to tell you how this works because you don't know. And so we are forever training and forever changing mindsets and some things like that. And for me, having come from a background of social work, I turned into the HR and the trainer. And like I said, I learned everything that I knew from him, having not been in engineering or food processing my entire life. And then as an adult, we thrashed into it and saying, well, come join us and one person knows what they're doing. I kind of know what I'm doing. We're going to take a chance and we're going to go on this journey together, and convincing people to do that, to take a chance... IFAD did take a chance on us and literally having a vision and a mission, but not really knowing where these truck’s going because it hasn't been done before. It's not like you can pop at the neighbours. Be like ohh. So how did you guys do it? No, no, it’s literally. Let's make it up as we go and for me I found that really difficult thing. I think we've got the hang of it, but that's the powerhouse, the human resource there and the attitude.
So that mindset just didn't stop with the people at work. It was the customers. So explaining to them that it's still egg. “No, it's engineered. It must be Chinese eggs”, because it had, you know, to be fake or whatever it is. So, the customer mindset - that took a while to sell this to them to say, “look, I'll show you. This is what you do. Ff you're baking 100 cakes, you're gonna get 120 with my egg because it it's homogenised, it's pasteurised, it does XYZ”. “Well, I'm not gonna believe you. Show me.” But then your auntie and your mother are the suppliers of the eggs. So maybe I don't want to antagonise that relationship. So, you know I'm not going to take the product. Not because it's not good but there's so much at stake with whoever supplies my current eggs, so I can't really go with you. And so, battling with mindset and then now going to the farmer, getting that rural woman convinced that it's a good idea. So, the mindset. For me, that has been most challenging, but what would I tell an entrepreneur? Never to give up. If you're convinced about something and you know, even when there's no evidence, take a leap of faith, because that's what we did.
Joel:
I think also... if you have an idea, it may even appear to be a stupid idea, but if you see value in it, follow it all the way, even us at the beginning. Sometimes I'd see it and you work the numbers and see the margins are going to be small and all that and the numbers will say what they're saying. But if you have that conviction that actually, you're serving your purpose. Go ahead and do it because you don't know when we started, we thought our plan was if we sell, say like 3 tons of liquid egg a week, I think we'll be fine. So we had a minimalistic view. Right now we sell close to 12 tons and we didn't see that happening. And doors open and opportunities open. But you have to be there if you have an idea, please knock on every door, tell anyone, even when you start, things are going to be hard. In COVID we kept going because there are some customers who are sold on the product, or what I’m saying is that, try to encourage anyone who has an idea. Don't give up, as Erina said, just carry on.
Brian:
Thank you Joel, Erina and Hector.
Michelle:
Don't forget to check out our latest episodes!
Brian:
Go to episode 80 if you’re interested in the science behind extreme weather.
Michelle:
Or episode 81, where we talk about how arid desert regions are tackling extreme heat.
Brian:
And be sure to listen to episode 82 – we’re talking about small shifts in the way we eat that are making BIG impacts on communities.
Michelle:
Up next, we continue our visit to Uganda and head over to a company that’s growing both crops and careers.
[MUSIC]
Brian:
You’re listening to Farms. Food. Future. with me Brian Thomson and Michelle Tang.
Michelle:
NASECO seeds is Uganda's largest owned seed company. Thanks to support from the IFAD yield fund, they’re having a huge impact on both agriculture and employment in the region.
Brian:
Our reporter Hector Clack chatted with Annet Nampoza about how the company is building a stronger future for Uganda.
[MUSIC]
Hector Clack:
Welcome to the podcast, Annet.
Annet Nampoza:
Thank you, hector.
Hector:
Can you tell us about Naseco seeds and their position in its community?
Annet:
iness company that started in:
Hector:
As the company has grown over time, what positive effects have you seen in employment opportunities?
Annet:
Naseco has its production facilities upcountry, so with up country it's we're not like in the in the central of the country of Uganda. So we are in Kakuma district, that's where our production plan. Ill and our head offices are in Kamapala in the centerof the country, Uganda. And here's by creating gainful employment opportunities such as staff seasonal workers and general suppliers, we see positive effects with our end customers across Uganda that have improved the quality of life and it drives drives us to continue our work.
Hector:
What role did Effect's yield fund play in the development of the company?
Annet:
IFAD has been having a partnership with us for this other period. I can say we have been able to onboard different consultants because the weather will what was mainly to bring in consultants in that we can improve our processes in the company with the partnership with the I fund the employees were. Able to get aligned with our strategic goals and object. Then also the operational department of Manuals. All this was worked on through the with the different consultants in the human resource department, the Health and Safety Department, production, finance, Outgrower, quality assurance, sales and marketing. So, we were able to have operational development. Departmental manuals then I can also look at the coaching and mentoring of the teams, especially the managers. IFAD has really done work on this through their partners. It has greatly improved the welfare and well-being of our employees, put better systems in place leading to its most operational business, delivering quality products to its customers.
Hector:
And how has Naseco seeds changed the way people in your community think about staying and working there, especially in terms of long-term stability?
Annet:
ion of opportunities to offer: Currently we're reaching over:
Hector:
OK. Thank you very much. Annet for your time.
Annet:
You're welcome.
Brian:
Thank you Annet and Hector.
Michelle:
Coming up, we’ll hear from an international development expert who’s tackling one of the most overlooked issues at the heart of sustainability.
[MUSIC]
Michelle:
You’re listening to episode 83 of Farms. Food. Future. With me Michelle Tang and Brian Thomson.
Brian:
Land is at the heart of food systems, climate action, and inequality. But it’s often overlooked in global development conversations.
Michelle:
Ward Anseeuw is working to change that. He is a Senior Land Specialist at FAO and Chair of the Global Donor Platform on Rural Development’s (GDPRD) Working Group on Land Governance, pushing for better policies and collaboration.
Brian:
Ahead of the World Bank Land Conference and as part of the GDPRD mini-series, our reporter Carlotta Cramer sat down with Ward to talk about land, sustainability, and his fight for equality.
[MUSIC]
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
Thank you Ward and welcome to the podcast. Can you tell us what are the issues that keep you up at night?
Ward Anseeuw:
Thank you, Carlotta. There are many things that keep me awake at night, but I would say what bothers me is the interrelatedness, the embeddedness of the issues we deal with and particularly land. Land is central to many of the aspects we work on, from economic to political to environmental, social aspects.
Although there's an awareness about that, because it is so transversal, it often becomes the appendix that nobody works on, or that nobody takes seriously to be solved in view of solving these broader issues.
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
Congratulations on your role as the Chair of the Global Donor Working Group on Land at the Donor Platform. What motivated you to take on this role?
Ward:
There is a need to upscale and mainstream land policies, and to do so, we need to work better together. We need better collaboration at all levels, from global to national and local. The Global Donor Working Group on Land, which is a coordination platform of donors mainly, is very instrumental to that. I wanted to be better engaged so that we can strengthen the coordination partnership role of the platform in order to achieve better impact, and coordinated impact on the brand.
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
Why is land such a crucial component of sustainable food systems transformation and of agricultural and rural development?
Ward Anseeuw:
Land is central to all aspects related to food systems transformation and rural development, whether from an economic, political, environmental, health, territorial, social or justice perspective. I'm not saying that if you solve land issues, you will solve all these aspects related to rural development and sustainable food systems, but if you do not work on land, trying to solve the challenges related to the development and sustainability of food systems and rural transformation will be challenging. Land will always be an obstacle for these broader challenges.
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
Could you share a concrete story or example from your work with the FAO to illustrate some of the issues that you mentioned before?
Ward Anseeuw:
Last week, I was in in Riyadh at UNCCD COP, mainly to promote land tenure within UNCCD’s strategic framework, but then also to make sure that we institutionalize that embeddedness, that relationship of land with aspects related to UNCCD desertification and deterioration of soil, by proposing a land tenure indicator to be integrated in the monitoring framework of UNCCD.
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
And, can you tell us what inspired you to become involved with international development?
Ward Anseeuw:
From when I was young, I hated inequality. So what inspired me to become involved with international development is really my fight against inequality, whether that's wealth inequality and income inequality, the poverty in the world versus the richer out there, but also the inequality in representation, the inequality of voice and the ability to making oneself heard, which is often the hidden part of the iceberg.
For me, development is really being able to make your own choice and not to be burdened by inequalities or obstacles that do not allow you to make your own decisions, to make your own choice, whether it's from a political limitation or from a wealth and income limitation.
Carlotta Cramer / GDPRD:
Is there one message that you have that you would like our listeners to walk away with and why?
Ward Anseeuw:
I would say that to create a more sustainable world, we need to make it more equal for all. There will not be sustainable development if there's [not] equality or more equality for all on the planet, whether that's from a wealth income perspective or from a voice, political and representation perspective.
[MUSIC]
Brian:
Thank you Ward and Carlotta.
Michelle:
And that brings us to the end of this episode.
[MUSIC]
Brian:
Thanks, as always to our producers and editor here in Rome, Rosa González, Francesco Manetti, Michele Galloni, Jianing Zhang, and to our reporter Hector Clack.
Michelle:
But most of all thanks to you for listening to this episode of Farms Food Future brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.
Brian:
We’ll be back in two weeks to talk fashion. But not just any fashion… GREEN fashion.
Michelle:
Imagine turning farm waste into clothing… It’s happening, and it might just change the industry as we know it.
And on the first Monday of June, the second episode of our series Life Stories drops…
Brian:
Featuring Pallab Chakma from Bangladesh and Dayana Dominicó from Colombia.
Brian and Michelle:
Stay tuned!
[MUSIC]
Brian:
This is Farms. Food. Future. – a podcast that’s Good for you, Good for the Planet, and Good for Farmers. Brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.
You can find out more about all of our stories at www.ifad.org/podcasts
Remember we want to hear from you – what you think about our stories and who you want us to be talking to – so please get in touch at podcasts@ifad.org. Send us your voice or text messages to this address and we'll be happy to play you out in the next show.
Also, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast via your favourite podcast platform and please rate us.
And once again, we'll be trying to be Good for you, Good for the Planet, and Good for Farmers. Brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.
Until then from me, Brian Thomson, and the team here at IFAD.
Thanks for listening.
