Same sky, different soil

Brian Thomson: 00:00:05

This is farms, food, future, a podcast that's good for you, good for the planet, and good for farmers brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.

Brian: 00:00:18

Welcome to episode 85. I'm Brian Thompson.

Michelle Tang: 00:00:22

And Co presenting this edition. I'm Michelle Tang.

Michelle: 00:00:25

To Mark World Environment Day this past June 5th, we're taking you across continents from the windswept steps of Mongolia to the arid landscapes of South Africa's Karoo.

Brian: 00:00:37

This episode is all about resilience.

Michelle: 00:00:41

First up, we follow British chef and TV presenter Si King, one half of the Hairy Bikers and the latest recipes for Change chef as he travels to Mongolia to meet nomadic herders.

Brian: 00:00:54

One challenge there is numbers. In the 90s livestock herds exploded.

Michelle: 00:01:00

That's right. At one point, there were over 70 million animals. That's more than 20 times the human population in the country.

Brian: 00:01:08

But big herds are tough to sustain when pastureland is shrinking and the weather's getting tougher and from one climate extreme to another.

Michelle: 00:01:14

Another place where farming is anything but easy is the Karoo, a vast semi desert region in South Africa, where droughts are long and water is scarce.

Brian: 00:01:28

There we''ll speak to Jack Lewis, an award-winning pomegranate farmer and social activist, about his journey and how he's adapting to environmental challenges.

Michelle: 00:01:40

But before we get there, don't forget we want to hear from you what you think about our stories and who you want us to be talking to. So please get in touch with us at podcasts dot ifad dot org.

Brian: 00:01:54

You can also subscribe to this podcast via your favorite podcast platform. And please don't forget to rate us.

Michelle: 00:02:02

Coming up, we traveled to Mongolia with recipes for change, chef Si King.

Brian: 00:02:14

You're listening to farms, food future with me, Brian Thompson and Michelle Tang.

When you land in Mongolia, the first thing that hits you is just how vast it is. It's 6 1/2 times the size of the UK with just 3.5 million people, most of them in the capital.

Michelle: 00:02:35

But out in the step far from Ulan battle, climate change is hitting hard. Mongolia faces extreme winters.

Brian: 00:02:47

Periods of intense cold and snow when livestock can't reach pasture beneath the ice.

Michelle: 00:02:54

Millions of animals have died in recent years.

Brian: 00:02:57

And considering livestock makes up 70% of the agricultural sector here.

Michelle: 00:03:04

But Mongolian herders are adapting.

Since: 2011

Brian: 00:03:29

And Tech is playing a role too.

From mobile apps to improve traceability to new ways of connecting remote herders with markets.

Michelle: 00:03:39

To see this in action, IFAD's Recipes For Change, Chef Si King traveled to Mongolia.

Brian: 00:03:45

You might know him as one of the Hairy Bikers. He's passionate about local food, climate resilience, and the people behind our plates.

Michelle: 00:03:54

He visited herders, Badma and Bold where he got the taste of life on the step.

Brian: 00:04:03

Our reporter Rosa Gonzalez joined Si King in the field. Let's head to Mongolia.

Rosa Gonzalez: 00:04:11

I'm here as part of an IFAD initiative called Recipe for Change, and it's it's to highlight pressure points due to climate change, and one of those pressure points is in Mongolia with the herds people and because the climate is having such an impact on their culture and then their way of life.

Si King: 00:04:30

It's part of my job being here to raise the profile of that struggle and challenge internationally, so I've come to have a look, to see how it is affecting this community. What I've seen here today is absolutely Fabulous. I I have to say that I've met with people that are so kind and generous and absolutely are part of the Mongolian landscape and land. They belong to the land and the land belongs to them. It's an individual relationship. And it feels like they're under quite a lot of pressure. Just in terms of the infrastructure and and particularly the pasture lands because the ground is drying out, the winds are here constantly, the winters are colder, so they're having to learn and move with those with those pressures really. So it's about pasture management. It's about reducing herd size but increasing the quality of the herd and livestock they have. It's about better husbandry. It's about feeding their animals through the winter and it's about cooperatives and communication. You know that's a big thing. That's a big thing. Those are huge changes to make in the way that you think in your lifestyle. So they have some challenges ahead, but the people... I've been absolutely blown away by them. I really have. They're wonderful, wonderful human beings.

Rosa Gonzalez: 00:05:56

Yeah. And it's like... this isn't your usual kitchen. So what is it like to cook in a place where temperatures drop to up to -40°?

Si King: 00:06:06

You know, food is part of the landscape, it's derived from the landscape, you know, and it's derived from the people that live in that landscape, so the food that I've been in the seat of is food appropriate to the herders. That's very simple food, incredibly tasty, highly colouristic, and great for -40°. I'm pleased I'm not here in -40°. I have to say, but it's yeah, the food that, you know, is part of the landscape and the people. So, it's been lovely to be in receipt of that and to see how they get through those horrendous winters.

Rosa: 00:06:45

Yeah. And what surprised you the most about them?

Si King: 00:06:48

Their resilience and their willingness to accept change, which in traditional lifestyles is a big ask for people because they've lived this way for thousands of years, so to say, OK, well, things are happening now that are outside your control and outside your community, but you need to react to them, and you need to be flexible and resilient to them and mitigate the effects.

Rosa: 00:07:15

As you've mentioned, herders in Mongolia experienced extreme weather very closely. So what have you learned from them that you think other people could also learn?

Si King: 00:07:24

Well, look, we live very comfortable lives, don't we? And this is their normal. And what we could all learn is a level of resilience and fortitude and and willingness to adapt and change. And because you know, because they're so rooted in their environment and they are part of the land. It's where their heart and soul is. There are things that are impacting them that have nothing to do with them really. It's outside of their control. It's a global event that's happening: climate change, so I've been struck by their willingness, given that these people have been herding livestock for thousands of years in this landscape.

Their willingness to learn, to re-learn, to adapt and to find new ways of making sure that their culture and their future is as secure as they can make it. Because that is to the benefit of us all as a global community, the diversity of our world is enormously important, because that's what enriches us all as travellers, as people that are inquisitive, that want knowledge. You know, these are incredibly, incredibly adept people and have a deep connection and knowledge to this land and who better to ask questions to if you want to know about Mongolia. Because the true heart and spirit of any country, I always see through my travels is in its rural communities.

Rosa: 00:09:05

Why do you think it's important to invest in people like Badma and Bold's family?

:: 09:10

Because it secures the future for them and they deserve that. What has been happening to them, they have no control over. It's about a global issue. It's about climate change and mostly that comes from the industries that the global populace have adopted.So it's important that we maintain cultures that are fragile. It's the sign of a humanism and a civilized society – that those that are vulnerable we help. Surely that's the human condition. It seems to be less these days, but you know the heart of it is certainly that. And if that is, that's fantastic and that they talk locally, they recognize the issues, they talk to the people who these issues are affecting and then they go “OK government what can we do to help?”.

I think part of the problem that we have, albeit that it's a tool for good, it's also a tool for distance and misinformation, and that is the social network that we have, you know, an amazing tool, but it's also incredibly disruptive because it means it treats everything like a video game, as does the news. So yeah, it's “OK” because it's not happening to us and what it has done, it has singularly taken out that core of empathy that we all have and that we should have as human beings to one another. I mean, there's issues happening right now across parts of the world that are nothing short of horrendous, and I think social media keeps us keeps us at a distance. We look at it through a lens and a window and we feel powerless to do anything. I hear it all the time. Uh, the attitude of defeatism or, well, what can I do about it? Well, what you can do about it, and it's only a small step, is don't just look at the headline, look at the issue.

Brian: 00:11:03

Thanks very much, Si and Rosa.

Up next we have Badma and Bold. The nomadic herders Si King visited in Mongolia as part of IFAD's recipes for change campaign.

Michelle: 00:11:22

You're listening to episode 85 of Farms Food Future with me, Michelle Tang and Brian Thompson. Recipes for change, its IFAD's flagship campaign that connects climate, food and people.

Brian: 00:11:35

It's all about communicating through love, not loss. By teaming up with chefs and local communities, creating stories that show how families around the world are adapting to the climate crisis. Because behind every dish there's a farmer, a herder, a Fisher, a family, finding ways to grow and cook against the odds.

Michelle: 00:11:57

And that brings us to Badma and Bold.

They've been married for over 25 years and live in Khentii, eastern Mongolia, the historic homeland of Genghis Khan, and today one of the regions hardest hit by the climate extremes. They are semi nomadic pastoralists herders of goats, sheep, cattle and horses moving with the rhythm of the land. Or at least they used to, our reporter Rosa Gonzalez spoke to them.

Rosa Gonzalez: 00:12:29

Winter in Mongolia isn't just cold, it's deadly. Last year alone, over 7 million animals were lost to extreme weather, but some families are finding ways to protect their herds, like badma and bald.

Badma: 00:12:46

In the past two years, Mongolia has experienced heavy. Snowfall and some households lost a large number of livestock or losses were minimal, and we managed to get through the winter without significant casualties. This was thanks to having well built fences and shelters, proper bedding for the animals. Growing our own fodder crops and prepared a large amount of hay by feeding the livestock with hay and bran, we were able to minimize losses.

Rosa: 00:13:26

That kind of preparation is the result of support through IFAD's project for market and pasture management development, which helps herders adapt to a harsher climate.

Families like Badm and Bold’s have learned how to manage pastures, improve breeding, and grow and store fodder, all essential when facing a zud with devastating Mongolian winter.

But the challenge isn't just snow. Summers are getting longer, drier and hotter each day. Bold walks their livestock to a nearby well, a shared life line for seven herding families.

Bold: 00:14:08

When I was a child, this bully had a flowing river and a lake. There were several swampy areas where horses would get stuck and vehicles couldn't pass through, but now the water has dried up and it's mostly gravel, but we have the advantage of having a water well, when the area turns dry gravel.

Si King: 00:14:33

One thing that remains constant no matter the hardship or the extreme climate, is the fantastic Mongolian food, and today I'm going to learn how to make a Mongolian classic called Lapcha. Now it's a noodle soup with dried meat and veggies.

And then if that wasn't enough, I'm going to learn how to make the famous Mongolian stuffed dumpling called Buzz. And guess what? It all happens in a day. This is the most popular dish rural people make.

It's occurred to me being here that the Mongolian herders are facing some of the toughest conditions on the planet, but with the right support, they're finding ways to adapt and their resilience is nothing short of incredible. And it's important that they are finding those ways. And with that support because it enables them to keep their traditions and their culture alive and well.

Michelle: 00:15:38

Thank you Badma, Bold, and Rosa. You can find more on this story and other recipes for change journeys.

At www dot ifad dot org slash recipes for change.

Brian: 00:15:52

You can also follow Si King's adventures on his Instagram at Si King official.

Michelle: 00:15:59

And don't forget to check out our latest episodes.

Brian: 00:16:02

In episode 82, you can find out about how small diet shifts can create big impacts in our communities.

Michelle: 00:16:10

Then in episode 83, we talked about reverse migration

Brian: 00:16:14

And Episode 84 brings you slow fashion and innovation from indigenous communities that could just revolutionize your wardrobe.

Michelle: 00:16:23

Now we're moving from Mongolia to South Africa, where award-winning pomegranate farmer and social activist Jack Lewis has his farm.

Brian: 00:16:39

You're listening to farms, food future with me, Brian Thompson and Michelle Tang. Jack Lewis is a pomegranate farmer, ethical entrepreneur and social activist who's using regenerative agriculture to grow food and opportunity in the Karoo region of South Africa.

Michelle: 00:16:59

This farm Clapper boss is not only producing world class pomegranates, it's also a model for biodiversity, youth employment and climate smart practices in action.

Rosa Gonzalez: 00:17:13

Welcome to farms, food future, Jack, you've had an extraordinary journey. So what's the biggest lesson from your past work that shapes how you approach farming today?

Jack Lewis: 00:17:23

I think the ability to do research that is the primary thing, I did a PhD at one point in my life where I looked at the impact of colonialism on agriculture and traditional society.

I'd lived in the Eastern Cape Web and I said the market itself undermined traditional society in Africa tribal society as it was, and the situation would have ended up pretty much like it has because there was preexisting differentiation within tribal society. So I have a strong research background.

And I think if you're passionate about something and you know how to do real research; you could do anything.

Rosa: 00:18:02

And how did you end up in the Karoo?

Jack Lewis: 00:18:05

y of Western Cape and then in: 1999

Growing up on a farm, so obviously what does that do to a young person? Ah, that's what I must do. You know, we want to do the opposite of what you told shouldn't be the right thing for you and because I was burnt out, I thought this is the time. I was 55 years old and I started looking for a piece of land and farming land in South Africa is very expensive and the closer to Cape Town that you are, which is my home city, the more expensive it is. So I had only a small amount of money and I was looking for partners so we could do something bigger and more commercial. I didn't mind. I wanted to do commercial farming for the market and I couldn't find anyone who would join me in this bad venture, so I had to scale down my ambitions and look for a place where land was affordable. And that's how I ended up here because I'm about four hours out of Cape Town and the little village of fun wakes.

ght. Our last big drought was: 2016

Out but from veg stops water from the rubber Mountain, Red Mountain in English rubber continued to flow consistently at 70,000 litres an hour, 24 hours a day, right through the drought, and the geological set up here that allows us to happen has never been properly explained. No one knows quite how it's possible. And yet it is.

Rosa: 00:20:22

That's amazing. And why did you choose to farm pomegranates?

Jack Lewis: 00:20:26

I had an idea that I wanted to do commercial farming. I wanted to have that relationship with the market and even tried to be profitable on a very tiny piece of land, so I had to look at niche markets for high value product. I chose pomegranate and I thought this looks like something that could be done in a couple of hectares and still be viable in the studies that the Americans did in Afghanistan. It was a subsistence form of farming as an alternative to growing poppies, and this kind of thing. So it was a serious production from the point of view of small farmers and I think it could be if the marketing infrastructure and the support.

Because then you have to try to add on some value. And pomegranates are very favourable for adding value, because unless you viciously thin out your yield, you're going to get a mix of large fruit, which is what the market looks for, because as in so many things in life, unfortunately size matters and people buy by the size and the color and most people.

End up using their small fruit as cattle feed. They see it as no value but of course if you juice it and you preserve that juice.

The juice of a small fruit has as much value as the juice of a big fresh fruit. So I have freezer rooms here, and then once the juice is quick frozen on the farm, I ship it out to a frozen cold store in Cape Town and I do my distribution from there because I'm juicing. I take the tons of skins that I get. Thenen I layer it with the crown and you and I make compost and I feed that back to the trees. Then the other thing we do is the smaller fruit we knock out the seed.

By hand and we dry them and we have dry pomegranate arils. Not many people know it as a product, but it's an extremely high value product and those who do know about it are prepared to pay a good price for it. So those are the three main products, but we're also now making pomegranate molasses, we evaporate the juice that we make the molasses from it, if you follow the Ottolenghi cookbooks, you'll see, he says pomegranate molasses, which you'll find in every house. So from Morocco through the sail to India, is the secret ingredient, says Ottolenghi, if you want to be a great shift in the Middle Eastern style, so again, it's an open market because there's no one else doing it. I'm virtually the only person in South Africa doing.

Rosa: 00:22:55

Hmm. How do you see your farm contributing to something bigger?

Jack: 00:23:01

The first thing the farm has to do is sustain itself: I try to use as many organic methods as possible, but there are certain things about pomegranate which makes it very difficult to be completely organic. The first thing is never to use glyphosphate. Pomegranate, like any tree benefits from the interaction of different roots. You want to allow the pioneer grasses and anything that you plan to supplement that to interact with the roots of your trees, and you don't want to use herbicides and have clean rows. One has to avoid forever chemicals, chemicals that will get into the water table and not dissolve. That would be the second point.

The Third Point about pomegranate is you need to feed the soil and the more nitrogen poor your soil is, the more you need to feed it. Now with Pomegranate, particularly because of the very thick skin it has. It sucks a huge amount of nutrients out of the soil to make that fruit. And right now I can produce about 30 tonnes of skins a year, which I feed back to the tree.

The 4th point, I would say is to use organically registered pesticides wherever possible. There are two huge pests in pomegranate, A fungus called Alta Area. You open it up, your fruit looks great on the outside and it's black and mouldy on the inside and the second, of course, is the famous false coddling moth which is actually a citrus pest but has migrated from the West Coast of South Africa across the country, and it's everywhere now. And in fact, that's the reason why so many people will tell you my grandmother used to have a pomegranate tree in the backyard and we used to enjoy it. But after 20 years they chopped it down and the reason they chopped it down was that all the fruit were infected with false codling moth.

If you don't control your false codling moth, you can lose 90% or more, even close to 100% of your crop and I have false codling moth here. I do use a standard chemical product, but I'm particularly spraying the ground and on the bark of the tree is because that's where the cocoons are sitting, although you need to also spray at the point where the more these numbers are starting to multiply.

Then after that then I use the organic methods, so that's the next point in what I call ethical farming is that you use as many organic methods as possible, but where necessary you supplement that with other methods.

And obviously, you'll see there's quite a bit of capital investment involved and I don't think that you can farm commercially without investment in the necessary technology. So my I've got dripper pipe, my irrigation is my dripper pipe and that allows me to use form related feed through the dripper pipe. Because of course, you can't really put organic fertilizer through the dripper pipe because it will block your drippers. You'll get too much organic growth at the dripper point it's a real challenge, so you know. Then feeding becomes more difficult and so I think it's, it's that question of trying to find a happy balance and yeah, that's my approach to farming.

Brian: 00:26:08

Thank you, Jack and Rosa. To find out more about ethical farming and the farm. You can visit www.klapperboss.co.zathatsklapperbos.co.za.

Brian: 00:26:26

And that brings us to the end of this episode.

Thanks as always to our producers and editor here in Rome, Rosa Gonzalez, Francesco Manetti and Francesca Prima Villa.

Michelle: 00:26:44

But most of our thanks to you for listening to this episode of Farms Food Future brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development.

Brian: 00:26:54

We'll be back in two weeks to talk about why financing matters and how if ADD is making it work for the people who grow our food.

Michelle: 00:27:02

And on the second Monday of July, we bring you our second edition of life stories, this time from Bangladesh and Colombia.

Brian and Michelle: 00:27:11

Stay tuned!

Brian: 00:27:17

This is farms, food, future, a podcast that's good for you, good for the planet, and good for farmers brought to you by the International Fund for Agricultural Development. You can find out more about all of our stories at www.ifad dot org forward slash podcasts.

Remember, we want to hear from you what you think about our stories and who you want us to be talking to. So please get in touch at podcast at ifad.org. Send us your voice or text messages to this address and we'll be happy to play you out in the next show. Also, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.

Via your favorite podcast platform and please rate US and once again we'll be trying to be good for you. Good for the planet, and good for the farmers. Until then from me, Brian Thomson and the team here at IFAD.

Thanks for listening.